Full blown race bike idea? Worth it? - Yamaha R3 Forum
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post #1 of 6 Old 11-27-2019, 06:39 AM Thread Starter
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Full blown race bike idea? Worth it?

I want to make my 2016 r3 into the most insane little bike ever. Basically strip it 100% down. Recoat the frame, strip the wheels to bare metal or even buy carbon wheels. Take the engine and have it bored and machined with all performance parts and a race/street ecu. Custom powder coated new fairings and full frame slider and axle slider kit. Custom seat and r1 style gas tank and r1 style tail kit. It came out to nearly $9000 in parts without cosmetics and small hardware etc. would it be worth it to just throw people off that a little 321cc bike is nearing the 450cc range with weight reduction and high modification? Or should I just buy a r6? Or do both for the **** of it?
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post #2 of 6 Old 11-27-2019, 09:03 AM
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What is your objective for the bike? The R3 is a great little bike that is more than capable of going to the race track with a few, "affordable modifications". And it already has a pretty good power to weight ratio, as is. If you plan this R3 build for "smoke and mirrors", or "show and tell", or strictly as a build project for your own enjoyment... then have at it. If you want an aggressive, fast, sport bike, and are determined to spend in the neighborhood of the before mentioned $11K to get it... trade in your R3, add the $9K you would have used to build the R3.. And get the R6.

To ride or not to ride? What a stupid question! ... Anon
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post #3 of 6 Old 11-27-2019, 03:52 PM
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And if you are going to build an actual race bike, get the rulebook for the organisation that you plan to race it in.

I have about C$10k in my R3 which is strictly a race bike. But I spent money where it needed to be spent: Suspension (#1 thing by far - and which you didn't mention), rider ergonomics, crash damage mitigation, weight reduction where it made logical sense, tuning. I did not spend money on things where the rulebook imposes constraints - the class has a horsepower limit, which was achievable with a stock engine ... so I haven't even had the valve cover off. I did not spend money on silly cosmetic stuff. It looks like a proper little race bike. And it works well. The main problem is the olde phat overweight washed up rider.

Race bikes do not have really fancy modified bodywork unless it serves a purpose. Endurance-racing bikes may have modified fuel tanks to increase capacity IF the rulebook allows it. They may have altered rear bodywork in the interest of properly displaying the rulebook-required number plate (and because they no longer need the passenger seat). Sometimes bodywork mods are done to accommodate the ergonomics and aerodynamics of a particular rider. There's a purpose to it. Stuff that costs money and serves no purpose ... doesn't get done.

On a similar note ... Race bikes do not have fancy paint jobs unless it serves a sponsor's marketing agenda.

If this is a street bike, it is a fool's errand to do serious engine work. Rolling down the road, no one will know you have it. Generally, the most reliable configuration of any Japanese vehicle built in the last couple of decades is ... bone stock. They are engineered to the Nth degree to work and last a long time in stock form. As soon as you deviate, you open up a can of worms. The cylinder walls will be thinner if you bore the cylinders (and you will need to get the cylinder walls re-plated ... and is the aftermarket place that re-plates them going to do as good a job as Yamaha did?). The head gasket will now have less sealing surface. If you raise the compression, now you're putting more stress into those thinner cylinders causing more deflection and you have less gasket sealing surface to deal with it. YES you can safely bore these by (I think) 1mm and aftermarket pistons are available. Is 45 hp (from a few percent overbore, the max that can safely be achieved, and a little more compression) instead of 42 hp (achievable with a stock unopened engine) really going to make a night and day difference to how the bike works on the street? No. You're still going to get walked by an R6. And it will probably not last as long.

Another thing ... Resale value. Most people in the market for a bike in this class will be looking for a stock or near-stock bike, and certainly not what they perceive as a grenade with the pin pulled.

I will never dissuade someone from installing better suspension parts, even on a street bike. I have the Ohlins NIX22 cartridge kit and an Ohlins shock on mine, both valved and spring for my weight. It costs money and it makes a BIG difference to how the bike rides and handles once it is properly set up. And if push came to shove ... I could take it all out and put it back to stock and no one would ever know.

I also won't dissuade someone from installing different handlebars or foot controls if it makes them more comfortable on the bike. Do that.

Forget about all the other stuff. Serious riders will see that Ohlins shock and know what it means. All the fancy paint and bodywork mods is just lipstick.
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post #4 of 6 Old 11-27-2019, 05:16 PM
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Agreed with the two up top. Build it to compete in a racing association or don't bother. It's a capable track toy as is with some minor upgrades. If you want a faster track toy it's way cheaper to get a faster bike.
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post #5 of 6 Old 11-28-2019, 09:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoFaster View Post
And if you are going to build an actual race bike, get the rulebook for the organisation that you plan to race it in.

I have about C$10k in my R3 which is strictly a race bike. But I spent money where it needed to be spent: Suspension (#1 thing by far - and which you didn't mention), rider ergonomics, crash damage mitigation, weight reduction where it made logical sense, tuning. I did not spend money on things where the rulebook imposes constraints - the class has a horsepower limit, which was achievable with a stock engine ... so I haven't even had the valve cover off. I did not spend money on silly cosmetic stuff. It looks like a proper little race bike. And it works well. The main problem is the olde phat overweight washed up rider.

Race bikes do not have really fancy modified bodywork unless it serves a purpose. Endurance-racing bikes may have modified fuel tanks to increase capacity IF the rulebook allows it. They may have altered rear bodywork in the interest of properly displaying the rulebook-required number plate (and because they no longer need the passenger seat). Sometimes bodywork mods are done to accommodate the ergonomics and aerodynamics of a particular rider. There's a purpose to it. Stuff that costs money and serves no purpose ... doesn't get done.

On a similar note ... Race bikes do not have fancy paint jobs unless it serves a sponsor's marketing agenda.

If this is a street bike, it is a fool's errand to do serious engine work. Rolling down the road, no one will know you have it. Generally, the most reliable configuration of any Japanese vehicle built in the last couple of decades is ... bone stock. They are engineered to the Nth degree to work and last a long time in stock form. As soon as you deviate, you open up a can of worms. The cylinder walls will be thinner if you bore the cylinders (and you will need to get the cylinder walls re-plated ... and is the aftermarket place that re-plates them going to do as good a job as Yamaha did?). The head gasket will now have less sealing surface. If you raise the compression, now you're putting more stress into those thinner cylinders causing more deflection and you have less gasket sealing surface to deal with it. YES you can safely bore these by (I think) 1mm and aftermarket pistons are available. Is 45 hp (from a few percent overbore, the max that can safely be achieved, and a little more compression) instead of 42 hp (achievable with a stock unopened engine) really going to make a night and day difference to how the bike works on the street? No. You're still going to get walked by an R6. And it will probably not last as long.

Another thing ... Resale value. Most people in the market for a bike in this class will be looking for a stock or near-stock bike, and certainly not what they perceive as a grenade with the pin pulled.

I will never dissuade someone from installing better suspension parts, even on a street bike. I have the Ohlins NIX22 cartridge kit and an Ohlins shock on mine, both valved and spring for my weight. It costs money and it makes a BIG difference to how the bike rides and handles once it is properly set up. And if push came to shove ... I could take it all out and put it back to stock and no one would ever know.

I also won't dissuade someone from installing different handlebars or foot controls if it makes them more comfortable on the bike. Do that.

Forget about all the other stuff. Serious riders will see that Ohlins shock and know what it means. All the fancy paint and bodywork mods is just lipstick.

What Gofaster said is spot-on!!! I track my FZ-07, I'm also a rider coach, and ride with the "A Group".... There are riders on R3's with stock motors (only intake/exhaust mods) and upgraded suspension that are faster than me in most of the corners. If it wasn't for the straights, I doubt I could ever catch them!!! I recently bought a 2019 R3 that is gonna be my "street-bike". My FZ-07 is gonna be my dedicated track-only bike. I've got over $12K in my FZ-07, that I will NEVER get even close to getting back. Don't make the same mistake I did... If you really want to get a bad-ass R3, buy one that someone else put all the money/work into-

"W.O.T. until you see God- THEN brake"
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post #6 of 6 Old 12-04-2019, 09:27 PM
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As an aside, how are you powder coating the fairings? I would imagine that by the time the pigment got warm enough to liquefy, the plastics would start to soften and deform. If you're really looking to change the look of the fairings, I'd just wrap the **** thing. Much cheaper, easily removable, and all sorts of different options for color/pattern. Just my $0.02.
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