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Discussion Starter #1
As the title says, why is it recommended to have a fuel commander on your bike? Use to race old 50cc bikes, fuel commanders were no there. I've got a couple of questions, hope you guys could help me out:


* They costs a couple of houndred $, so why is it so neccessary with a full system exhaust and are there no other options to let the bike run smooth?
*How does the hardware works of such a thing?


I've tried to save you guys these questions but since internet isn't providing me alot of information i'll drop it here :D
 

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I'm no expert, but I think the Power Commander just replaces the ECU on your bike and you can program your Power Commander more easily since it comes with the software and instructions for your laptop. The stock ECU is set to operate the bike stock. Small changes like changing octane, altitude, hot and cold weather, and even a slip-on are handled OK by the existing ECU, but if you change the entire exhaust, apparently that change will not allow your bike to run properly. Then you have to either have your ECU dyno tested to see what is not working properly and the ECU reflashed by someone with access to Yamaha's software, or you can program your own Power Commander to improve performance with or without dyno testing.

When the Ninja 300 had stalling issues, eventually, they had to fix it by replacing the ECUs. You would think they could have just programmed a new map and downloaded that via the internet to dealers to fix the problem, but they didn't. Could have even been faulty ECUs instead of faulty programming there.
 

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Most fuel processors take the fuel signal from the ECU and modify it. The way injectors work is they receive a "go" or "no-go" signal from the ECU. The length of the "go" signal determines the fuel amount. If you increase the time of the signal then you increase the fuel. Most bikes are stuffed up by emmissions regulations and are running lean to have a clean burn. Some people will say that this overly lean condition affects drivability and long-term engine life. I have experience with several Cobra PowrPro fuel processors. They adjust themselves via some fancy electronics that measure every power pulse. They are only for big V twin motors. I had them on two VTX1800s and one VTX1300 and they made partial throttle and low speed fueling much better. As far as I know most fuel processors cannot go leaner than the ECM signal. Some fuel processors have a "3D" map that stores additive values for each RPM segment and throttle opening. For example, at 2,000RPM the map might have values for 0, 5, 10, 20, 40, 60, 80 and 100% throttle positions. Computers are fast so this is all transparent to the rider. The Cobras that I used just plugged inline with the fuel injector signal line so there was just two plugs and then a ground wire. Installation was very easy. Other controllers have a lot of wires. I have never installed one of those. Some people send their ECU off to have it flashed. The ECU also contains a "3D" map like a fuel controller. On some ECUs there are restrictions. For example, timing might be retarded in the first few gears and the fuel and/or spark might be retarded at redline. Usually you can get these restrictions removed. The ECU on the R3 is probably very simple compared to fancier bikes. When you open up the bike with intake and exhaust mods you allow more air into the engine. The engine is really just an air pump. So you have a lot of extra air but the stock amount of fuel. The map in the ECU can make minor modifications to the fueling to accommodate altitude changes or humidity/temperature changes, but it cannot accommodate huge changes. So you end up running lean all over. To do all of this properly you need a dyno and an air-fuel ratio meter. This is a very complex topic and what I have just typed should be enough to have a basic understanding. Personally, if I need more power I just buy a bigger bike. I do appreciate precise fueling so on some bikes I have added a fuel controller, but that was just to make the bike nicer to ride. YMMV.
 

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Good post, that's pretty thorough. All I would add is that fuel controllers like the Bazzaz Zfi can reduce the fuel below the stock ECU amount as well as increase it. Not very often you have to go below stock, but they can. :)

Most fuel processors take the fuel signal from the ECU and modify it. The way injectors work is they receive a "go" or "no-go" signal from the ECU. The length of the "go" signal determines the fuel amount. If you increase the time of the signal then you increase the fuel. Most bikes are stuffed up by emmissions regulations and are running lean to have a clean burn. Some people will say that this overly lean condition affects drivability and long-term engine life. I have experience with several Cobra PowrPro fuel processors. They adjust themselves via some fancy electronics that measure every power pulse. They are only for big V twin motors. I had them on two VTX1800s and one VTX1300 and they made partial throttle and low speed fueling much better. As far as I know most fuel processors cannot go leaner than the ECM signal. Some fuel processors have a "3D" map that stores additive values for each RPM segment and throttle opening. For example, at 2,000RPM the map might have values for 0, 5, 10, 20, 40, 60, 80 and 100% throttle positions. Computers are fast so this is all transparent to the rider. The Cobras that I used just plugged inline with the fuel injector signal line so there was just two plugs and then a ground wire. Installation was very easy. Other controllers have a lot of wires. I have never installed one of those. Some people send their ECU off to have it flashed. The ECU also contains a "3D" map like a fuel controller. On some ECUs there are restrictions. For example, timing might be retarded in the first few gears and the fuel and/or spark might be retarded at redline. Usually you can get these restrictions removed. The ECU on the R3 is probably very simple compared to fancier bikes. When you open up the bike with intake and exhaust mods you allow more air into the engine. The engine is really just an air pump. So you have a lot of extra air but the stock amount of fuel. The map in the ECU can make minor modifications to the fueling to accommodate altitude changes or humidity/temperature changes, but it cannot accommodate huge changes. So you end up running lean all over. To do all of this properly you need a dyno and an air-fuel ratio meter. This is a very complex topic and what I have just typed should be enough to have a basic understanding. Personally, if I need more power I just buy a bigger bike. I do appreciate precise fueling so on some bikes I have added a fuel controller, but that was just to make the bike nicer to ride. YMMV.
 

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
Thanks for the explanation. I get wat you´re saying, it´s alot of hassle to put on a full system, expecially for someone who doesn´t precicely know what´s going on in the R3´s system. The main reason why I want to install a full system (Yoshi. R77) is that I want to get rid of the sound of the stock exhaust. I think the problem is all in the Cat Converter. Might consider just to buy a slip on exhaust. Thanks anyways guys.

Edit: Found this one, i'm in love. It has a DB killer; no police problems here. And still it sounds like a freaking beast!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkmZPq4jIKE
 

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Hollywood just posted a youtube video of his exhaust with the cat and muffler removed. It gives a great comparison to all the other youtube videos of the different slipons so you can decide if a full system will give you the sound you want.

Thanks for the explanation. I get wat you´re saying, it´s alot of hassle to put on a full system, expecially for someone who doesn´t precicely know what´s going on in the R3´s system. The main reason why I want to install a full system (Yoshi. R77) is that I want to get rid of the sound of the stock exhaust. I think the problem is all in the Cat Converter. Might consider just to buy a slip on exhaust. Thanks anyways guys.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Thanks alot, I'll have a look right after dinner ;) Without the Fuel c. there's a big difference in costs aswell
 

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Email yoshimura and ask them if it is necessary to have a fuel controller with their full system on the R3. I guarantee you they will respond that you don't need it.

If all you need is nicer sound, and no performance gains, you don't need a fuel controller. If you intend to take the motorcycle to track days, then you should get a fuel controller.
 

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Great how to video. It also points out why I hate fairings.
I didnt even have to do all that work. All i did was loosen the two bottom fairing bolts under the foot pegs the cut the pipe behind the oxygen sensor removed the cat bracket bolt and bingo the cat was out bended and welded the new pipe on and that was it. Those fairing tabs break so easy too.
 

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Thanks mate, sounds wicked. Only problem I experience is when I'd put on a gp slip-on, Dutch police will chase me all day :( DB killer is a must here
They won't be available for several months but once they are, go with a Delkevic DS70 and leave the DB killer in. They're a bit louder than stock but the police shouldn't bother you with one of these installed.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Thanks mate, sounds wicked. Only problem I experience is when I'd put on a gp slip-on, Dutch police will chase me all day
DB killer is a must here
They won't be available for several months but once they are, go with a Delkevic DS70 and leave the DB killer in. They're a bit louder than stock but the police shouldn't bother you with one of these installed.
I just cannot wait that long to get rid of the stock blowpipe. Yoshimura's r77 is already on the market with a DB killer :)
 

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I just cannot wait that long to get rid of the stock blowpipe. Yoshimura's r77 is already on the market with a DB killer :)
My personal experience with Yoshimura slip-ons is that without the DB killer they're just a straight pipe and VERY loud. With the DB killer installed they're still WAY louder than other brands WITHOUT their DB killers installed.

I think you might still have problems with the police with the Yosh pipe, even with the DB killer installed.....Maybe see if you can hear one in person somewhere?

Although, after watching this video, maybe it won't be an issue since most of the muffling seems to be in the catalytic converter and the exhaust box under the frame....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1iHpeF1eZQ&feature=youtu.be

It seems like part of Yosh's marketing plan is to be the loudest out there....
 

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I do like the sound. What I am concerned about on a small bike is that the engine might not be able to walk the walk. In other words a bark but no bite. Its a catch 22 for me. Small bikes lack a good exhaust note and fast bikes dont need them. One exception to that for me is the GROM. That bike's cool factor increases with a very loud pipe.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I get what you guys are saying. It's not that I want to be the loudest but in the local traffic here there are so many morrons who just don't pay attention. Zipping through a traffic jam ( rush hour 100% win-win guarantee that you'll have luck to get into one ), they just don't recon you beiing there. For that a loud(er) pipe could save you some of the hassle. Here you have alot of guys driving their ducati's with termignoni exhaust without mufflers, they can drive without problem because people (+police) seem to act like: "is a big bike what you expect". For that reason upgrading a 321cc with a louder pipe won´t be an issue. But when you upgrade it with a (for example) Akra Slip-on GP you're driving without muffler and at that point you're a criminal ;)
 

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I do like the sound. What I am concerned about on a small bike is that the engine might not be able to walk the walk. In other words a bark but no bite. Its a catch 22 for me. Small bikes lack a good exhaust note and fast bikes dont need them. One exception to that for me is the GROM. That bike's cool factor increases with a very loud pipe.
Watch this Grom video by RoyalJordanian on Youtube, and check out some of his other Grom and Husqvarna NUDA videos.

In London traffic.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2iSkTUpS-FQ
 

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I get what you guys are saying. It's not that I want to be the loudest but in the local traffic here there are so many morrons who just don't pay attention. Zipping through a traffic jam ( rush hour 100% win-win guarantee that you'll have luck to get into one ), they just don't recon you beiing there. For that a loud(er) pipe could save you some of the hassle. Here you have alot of guys driving their ducati's with termignoni exhaust without mufflers, they can drive without problem because people (+police) seem to act like: "is a big bike what you expect". For that reason upgrading a 321cc with a louder pipe won´t be an issue. But when you upgrade it with a (for example) Akra Slip-on GP you're driving without muffler and at that point you're a criminal ;)
There's always the 'Made For Yamaha' Yosh pipe. Should be about $275.00 U.S. less than R-77.

Not sure how it compares but it has a straight through baffle with perimeter packing, no DB killer.

https://www.yamahapartsandaccessori...reet+Motorcycle&d=28&f=2015|247&dealernumber=
 

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Thanks mate, sounds wicked. Only problem I experience is when I'd put on a gp slip-on, Dutch police will chase me all day :( DB killer is a must here
The manufacture makes DP killers Sportbiketrackgear.com has them check them out.
 
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