Yamaha R3 Forums banner

1 - 20 of 120 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
58 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Why can't people pull their horsepower loving heads out of their asses?

Firstly Ill state that I love my R3, its my third favorite of all the motorcycles I have owned.

But its sad to say that entry bikes from the 80s and early 90s would absolutely eat them for breakfast on a race track.

The R3 and KTM RC390 are at the top of the entry level sportbike pack these days. Everyone loves them because they are quick, nimble and fun.

Which they are....

But my 1990 Bandit 400 easily eats up an R3 or RC with no issues. FZR400s and RVF400s would spank them with ease!

Does North America NEED a graduated licencing law for motorcycles like they have in Japan and most of Europe....If it means with get sweet little supersports then **** yea!

It just annoys me to always hear "well ill learn on this and move up to a 600" Frankly, I dont want to spend the money on that sort of insurance, same goes for an SV or FZ07 (I have had plenty of big bikes, and cant justify the cost per cc to run them on the street)

A modern GSXR400 or R3 with a 321cc triple would have been slick!

Rant over/
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
169 Posts
Aren't the old bikes you mentioned two stocks?


Edit:I should have checked, just searched google, Bandit 400 makes 59hp, so.

Sent from my LG-D802 using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,519 Posts
Aren't the old bikes you mentioned two stocks?


Edit:I should have checked, just searched google, Bandit 400 makes 59hp, so.

Sent from my LG-D802 using Tapatalk
There are 2 and 4 stroke bikes from that era. The RVF and gsxr mentioned are both 4 stroke bikes though there is a 2 stroke gsxr 250 as well.

I've been looking at a lot of the 400s here in Japan the last few weeks. The only real problem I have with them is that a 20 year old bike is going to have worn parts that I don't really feel like dealing with. Been there/ done that with my 1999 Ex500. Don't think I want to deal with carbs again or replace components every few weeks.

I also got to sit on an Aprilia rs125. I really liked that but I want a bike that I can ride on the street as well. Japan won't allow anything below 250 onto the highway.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
542 Posts
Small bikes just don't have a market outside of learners in North America, or at least that's what manufacturers believe and what recent trends would dictate. Even 600 sales are suffering. For the extra 2 or 3 grand, why not buy the liter bike instead? That's the American logic.

Building a race spec small bike would be very close in price to the 600s, and I think most people would look right past them. And that's not even considering the used market, where last year's liter bike would probably be thee same price as a new 400 class bike. I think the recent trend of small bike popularity has to do mainly with cost, and a lot of women getting into the sport. Small and cheap is an easy pill to swallow. Small and expensive just doesn't make much sense, unless you experienced enough to appreciate what they offer. I'm not sure there's enough riders put there that want that to make it a worthwhile product for any manufacturer.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
313 Posts
Who wants small cc cheap and economical compare to race purpose and expensive?

There is ktm in the 390

I wished r3 is 390, but 321 is enough to keep up with the big bikes, the difference in accelaration is at top end, which dont normally happen in a rather short road stretch, and the speed limit
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
542 Posts
The base rc390 is in the same class as us, it's not a big jump at all from the r3. Even the 390 cup is still down on power for a 400, but the rest of the package is great. I'd take one of those if it was street legal, but it's not. Take a look at the specs for the old fzr400, we want an updated version of that. 60-70 hp, proper brakes, fully adjustable suspension. A race replica 300/400 class bike for the streets.

Probably won't happen anytime soon, but it would be awesome.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
140 Posts
They could make a proper supersports with modern tech in low cc with more cylinders, better stock ergos, better suspension and brake packages, better frames etc etc but it will end up costing not that much less than a 600cc supersports.

Then you also have the thing that the only people really buying these smaller cc sportsbikes are countries with graduated licencing/restricted licensing or people who want to learn on smaller cc bikes. Put that all together and then it ends up being a bad idea putting novice riders on basically full blown supersports with less power and maybe a little less weight. Other thing, is that with the graduated licensing schemes they typically limit the power/weight ratio or overall power and not just engine size. The MT07LA (Learner Approved, the 655cc restricted version), makes about 50 something PS but weighs over 180kg. Our R3's make about 30 something PS stock but weigh a bit over 160kg stock.

Smaller cc bikes dont accelerate as hard, dont go as fast and typically arent ridden as hard (on the street at least) as 600cc and up supersports, so they deliberately design them with the capability of the engine and rider in mind.

That being said, its good that Yamaha has an R3 Cup racing competition (in Australia at least), so that people who are willing to spend a bit more coin can get things like ergonomics upgrades, brake upgrades, a bit more engine power, lighter components, etc etc. because there will be people racing these things on the track and will want to squeeze every little bit they can out of the bikes. That aftermarket development then translates into street upgrades.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
271 Posts
But my 1990 Bandit 400 easily eats up an R3 or RC with no issues. FZR400s and RVF400s would spank them with ease!



A modern GSXR400 or R3 with a 321cc triple would have been slick!

/


Id buy a modern vfr400 or fzr400. I agree with the power statement. I dont see a need for a bike with ~200hp. Youll never legally put the bike to its potential on the street. id be content with a 60hp r3 if it were identical to the fzr or vfr
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
30 Posts
Why can't people pull their horsepower loving heads out of their asses?

But its sad to say that entry bikes from the 80s and early 90s would absolutely eat them for breakfast on a race track.

The R3 and KTM RC390 are at the top of the entry level sportbike pack these days. Everyone loves them because they are quick, nimble and fun.

Which they are....
I purchased my R3 because of what I bolded, not because I would be taking it to the track. The R3 is much more comfortable than the R1 in traffic. The R3 has enough power to do what you want to do on public roads and still have fun.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
169 Posts
Why can't people pull their horsepower loving heads out of their asses?

Firstly Ill state that I love my R3, its my third favorite of all the motorcycles I have owned.

But its sad to say that entry bikes from the 80s and early 90s would absolutely eat them for breakfast on a race track.

The R3 and KTM RC390 are at the top of the entry level sportbike pack these days. Everyone loves them because they are quick, nimble and fun.

Which they are....

But my 1990 Bandit 400 easily eats up an R3 or RC with no issues. FZR400s and RVF400s would spank them with ease!

Does North America NEED a graduated licencing law for motorcycles like they have in Japan and most of Europe....If it means with get sweet little supersports then **** yea!

It just annoys me to always hear "well ill learn on this and move up to a 600" Frankly, I dont want to spend the money on that sort of insurance, same goes for an SV or FZ07 (I have had plenty of big bikes, and cant justify the cost per cc to run them on the street)

A modern GSXR400 or R3 with a 321cc triple would have been slick!

Rant over/
First of all your comparing a 320 to a 400 class. Obviously its going to lose. 2nd of all alot of people want to move up from a 300 to a 600 because they want the extra power in the 60-90MPH range. I want to move up to a 600 eventually because not only em i a good driver, but its crucial for me to have more power for safety reasons and also overall demand. Now you might say WTF your ass backwards on this, but being able to accelerate faster can be the difference between life and death. Not to mention the technology on 600's are far more better. Better suspension, tuning, shocks, breaking system. a 300 cc bike i cant live with forever, but a 600 will do everything i need/want for future. If you want to take motorcycling very seriously in terms of performance and stunting then you need a 600, especially when your 6foot5 and 190sh lbs (me). Otherwise don't be the guy on a 300cc bike that demands respect and shuns all people wanting more power, in the end its to each owns wants and needs. If some guy is going to annoy you about your 300cc hes not a real rider, hes a douchebag. GL safe riding!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
542 Posts
You missed the entire point of this thread. You don't need more power on the streets than a 300/400 offers (or even on a track but that's a different beast). If you think you need 200 hp to be safe in traffic you are an idiot. No matter what bike you have, you will always stop faster than you accelerate. You will always swerve faster than you can stop. Using your throttle to avoid a problem is an absolute last resort.

Onto your next point, the wishlist on the bike we are talking about will have plenty of power in the 65-90 mph range, 60 hp on a lightweight bike and short gearing would be very quick. The difference in components is null, we are asking for supersport spec parts on a small bike. This means taking the brakes and suspension technology off the R6/R1 and placing them on an r3. That bike will perform very well, possibly even better than the big bikes.

The other thing, is small bikes offer something big bikes never will. They are super easy to ride. Smaller size, lighter weight, less rotational mass, (quality components on the dream bike), enough power to be fun but without the need for 8 layers of electronic rider aids, all of this adds up to a package that is hard to compare to anything else.

I know you are a car guy, think of a 400 class bike as an Ariel atom. You don't need a whole lot of power to go around a track very quickly.

Yes, to each their own, but you're spewing nonsense based on your inexperience. You've got 5000 miles of riding over the winter in NJ, it's safe to assume that you haven't even touched the limits of the 300. Don't think you are too good for this bike for a second. A good rider on this bike (or better yet, a race prepped version) will humiliate your average 600/1000 rider on a technical road or track.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
169 Posts
You missed the entire point of this thread. You don't need more power on the streets than a 300/400 offers (or even on a track but that's a different beast). If you think you need 200 hp to be safe in traffic you are an idiot. No matter what bike you have, you will always stop faster than you accelerate. You will always swerve faster than you can stop. Using your throttle to avoid a problem is an absolute last resort.

Onto your next point, the wishlist on the bike we are talking about will have plenty of power in the 65-90 mph range, 60 hp on a lightweight bike and short gearing would be very quick. The difference in components is null, we are asking for supersport spec parts on a small bike. This means taking the brakes and suspension technology off the R6/R1 and placing them on an r3. That bike will perform very well, possibly even better than the big bikes.

The other thing, is small bikes offer something big bikes never will. They are super easy to ride. Smaller size, lighter weight, less rotational mass, (quality components on the dream bike), enough power to be fun but without the need for 8 layers of electronic rider aids, all of this adds up to a package that is hard to compare to anything else.

I know you are a car guy, think of a 400 class bike as an Ariel atom. You don't need a whole lot of power to go around a track very quickly.

Yes, to each their own, but you're spewing nonsense based on your inexperience. You've got 5000 miles of riding over the winter in NJ, it's safe to assume that you haven't even touched the limits of the 300. Don't think you are too good for this bike for a second. A good rider on this bike (or better yet, a race prepped version) will humiliate your average 600/1000 rider on a technical road or track.
I have touched the limits of this bike, its not too hard too...Why does everyone think this bike has such a high learning curve to max out?? Ever think that some people on this forum are more skilled then your average rider? This bike is great, however it is lacking and if you think for a second it isnt you should really realize this is an entry level bike. Yes ive only ridden 5k+ on this bike, but dont discredit my driving career. I've ridden mini-bikes and dirt bikes since i was 7. Driven hard in the woods with several snowmobiles/ATV's. Ive driven performance cars, and handful of motor mechanized utility vehicles for farm/commercial purposes. This bike on the highway is more dangerous then a 600 because it is not geared high enough for high speeds, not to mention its riding stance. And im not talking 180mph I'm speaking within reason to the speed limit. Accelerating faster to dodge an incoming car or to move out of the way is easier on a 600 then a 300 and thats a fact. Not to mention on a 600 you will be in the low rpm range while cruising. If i'm on the highway with my 300 my engine is screaming in 5th gear and atleast 6k in 6th. Why do people think wanting speed on a 600cc bikes will automatically mean im doing over 100mph....No..i want the extra torque and power to do it if i need or want too. I also like a challenge to grow into, I'm very fond of the art that is motorcycle riding. Anyway if you can ride in new jersey you can ride anywhere.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
82 Posts
I agree with HarisoH. If they made this a 300cc R6 it would cost at least twice as much.

I agree with him also that, the target of this bike is not the 170mph crowd but the newbie, commuter, or, like me, someone downsizing.

I've had R1's, R6's, and, until 3 days ago, my main bike was an old school 80' GS550E with mods. (which more or less evolved into the Katana).

This is one of the absolute best deals out there. You can spend very little money on power ups to get some more power if you need to...if not the stock mill is just fine up to 100mph. Don't get there fast enough - change the sprockets..or whatever.

I think Yamaha nailed it...I flipping love mine...at about 2/3rds the weight of a liter bike you can throw it into the curves much faster than they can go. I love when we go through a couple of dog legs and I can hear the other bikes dropping to a lower gear to (and they do) pull around me. Get a lot of "WTF?" looks from peeps that haven't seen it yet...

Mines less than a week old and I've rode it almost continiuously since I got it....already planning a trip to the Dragons Tail with my bike buddies and they all have R6 or bigger bikes, can't wait.

Jay


They could make a proper supersports with modern tech in low cc with more cylinders, better stock ergos, better suspension and brake packages, better frames etc etc but it will end up costing not that much less than a 600cc supersports.

Then you also have the thing that the only people really buying these smaller cc sportsbikes are countries with graduated licencing/restricted licensing or people who want to learn on smaller cc bikes. Put that all together and then it ends up being a bad idea putting novice riders on basically full blown supersports with less power and maybe a little less weight. Other thing, is that with the graduated licensing schemes they typically limit the power/weight ratio or overall power and not just engine size. The MT07LA (Learner Approved, the 655cc restricted version), makes about 50 something PS but weighs over 180kg. Our R3's make about 30 something PS stock but weigh a bit over 160kg stock.

Smaller cc bikes dont accelerate as hard, dont go as fast and typically arent ridden as hard (on the street at least) as 600cc and up supersports, so they deliberately design them with the capability of the engine and rider in mind.

That being said, its good that Yamaha has an R3 Cup racing competition (in Australia at least), so that people who are willing to spend a bit more coin can get things like ergonomics upgrades, brake upgrades, a bit more engine power, lighter components, etc etc. because there will be people racing these things on the track and will want to squeeze every little bit they can out of the bikes. That aftermarket development then translates into street upgrades.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
82 Posts
I purchased my R3 because of what I bolded, not because I would be taking it to the track. The R3 is much more comfortable than the R1 in traffic. The R3 has enough power to do what you want to do on public roads and still have fun.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ THIS ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Exactly why I got my R3. I've had the big bikes and no longer need the expensive upkeep or insurance (R3 full coverage for a year - $126USD).

To get R6 performance with this bike it'd be just another R6....instead drive it like it's an R3 and you'll have a lot more fun.

I get people who say "I need more acceleration for safety"...and in 34 years of two wheeling I can honestly say the times I've had to do it in a panic situation, it didn't matter anyway...still got hit.

Now...the times when the girls would show me their boobs it worked great! >:D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
82 Posts
I feel you...yes, you can find the sharp points of the bike quickly (especially if you've ridden liter bikes)...and I get your argument about the torque and all that...but I think you're in the minority. Most people getting this bike are newbies (that's the target audience) and they don't need (or care) about the points you make. It would also price the bike out of their budget and they'd all buy Ninja CBR 300's.

Then there are people who are intentionally downsizing (me). I fully understand this is NOT a super bike. I have found or know the limits and they're fine for what this bike costs and is intended for (of course, the old me starts thinking about all the stuff I can mod to get more power).

I'm not trying to be flippant or pissy (and I'm American) but if you did all the things you wanted it would not be the same bike. I know I know it sounds like 'shut up you!' but I'm fully understanding what you want to say.....back in the day I had a POS car that I spent ooooodles of money on. Yeah..it ran with the giants and made me happy...but...I could have just bought a newer different car that did the same thing for a lot less money. If you want super-bike performance you just need to spend the dough on one. I did look at the new R1's while picking up my R3....$16,500USD base (OVER 3x the cost) and the R1M is $22k (almost 5x as much)...so that pretty much ends it for me. :eek:

Cheers

Jay

I have touched the limits of this bike, its not too hard too...Why does everyone think this bike has such a high learning curve to max out?? Ever think that some people on this forum are more skilled then your average rider? This bike is great, however it is lacking and if you think for a second it isnt you should really realize this is an entry level bike. Yes ive only ridden 5k+ on this bike, but dont discredit my driving career. I've ridden mini-bikes and dirt bikes since i was 7. Driven hard in the woods with several snowmobiles/ATV's. Ive driven performance cars, and handful of motor mechanized utility vehicles for farm/commercial purposes. This bike on the highway is more dangerous then a 600 because it is not geared high enough for high speeds, not to mention its riding stance. And im not talking 180mph I'm speaking within reason to the speed limit. Accelerating faster to dodge an incoming car or to move out of the way is easier on a 600 then a 300 and thats a fact. Not to mention on a 600 you will be in the low rpm range while cruising. If i'm on the highway with my 300 my engine is screaming in 5th gear and atleast 6k in 6th. Why do people think wanting speed on a 600cc bikes will automatically mean im doing over 100mph....No..i want the extra torque and power to do it if i need or want too. I also like a challenge to grow into, I'm very fond of the art that is motorcycle riding. Anyway if you can ride in new jersey you can ride anywhere.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
97 Posts
I always make it clear that I don't need to go 170 MPH. I ask the person that I'm speaking to that has a higher cc bike than me "When was the last time you went over 130 MPH?" and the answer is usually awhile ago. :-/

I don't need to go 170 MPH
I don't need to get into trouble
I don't need to lose my license
I don't need to ride something faster
The U.S. does not have an Autobahn

I will ride more aggressive being the adrenaline junkie that I am (Race BMX, downhill free-ride MTB/Single Track Slalom, and my Raptor 660 R four wheeler).

Sometimes I'll even add "Have you ever been pulled over/arrested for speeding?" They usually say yes to one of those things and then I reply "How much money did it cost you then/long term and was it worth it or would you do it again?"
 
1 - 20 of 120 Posts
Top