[NoobRider]

Definitely a noob question but once the bike is moving is it even necessary to use the clutch when upshifting?
I noticed I can upshift like normal clutch or no clutch.

 

[Kojiiro]

Definitely a noob question but once the bike is moving is it even necessary to use the clutch when upshifting?
I noticed I can upshift like normal clutch or no clutch.

No, you dont need to use the clutch when upshifting. Alot of people do this. Some will argue that its bad for the bike. There are people reporting they've been clutchless shifting for years with no damage to their bikes.

 

[vercify]

My buddy is a mechanic and he says that shifting without a clutch is literally doing nothing for you other than putting more wear and tear on your bike. MSF also teaches your to use the clutch and none of my instructors mentioned anything about it being ok to shift without it.

From what I understand, the clutch is sort of a middle man to help absorb energy from shifting gears/changing speed, etc, but don't quote me on that. I've always felt like my clutchless shifts were clunkier than when I used the clutch (prob b/c I'm not practiced at not using it) but I decided to stop doing it, personally. Quite honestly I enjoy managing the clutch while shifting, its part of riding for me.

 

[Kojiiro]

My buddy is a mechanic and he says that shifting without a clutch is literally doing nothing for you other than putting more wear and tear on your bike. MSF also teaches your to use the clutch and none of my instructors mentioned anything about it being ok to shift without it.

From what I understand, the clutch is sort of a middle man to help absorb energy from shifting gears/changing speed, etc, but don't quote me on that. I've always felt like my clutchless shifts were clunkier than when I used the clutch (prob b/c I'm not practiced at not using it) but I decided to stop doing it, personally. Quite honestly I enjoy managing the clutch while shifting, its part of riding for me.

Was that the BRC? I can see them not talking about it at the Basic Rider Course, because its not needed for a basic course. I also took the ARC/MSRC (military sport bike rider course) and it was mentioned (though) not part of the course material) a few times here and there. At any rate, I googled MSF and clutchless upshifting, heres an article from an MSC Rider Coach/ Total Control Rider Coach. :

http://www.ridergroups.com/1769/how-to-perform-a-clutchless-shift-on-a-motorcycle/

 

[racerrrrx]

My buddy is a mechanic and he says that shifting without a clutch is literally doing nothing for you QUOTE]



Your buddy is simply wrong. Done properly, you can shift up and down without the clutch, with ZERO extra wear on anything, faster and smoother than with the clutch.


That said, I wouldn't suggest a new rider start off trying to clutchless shift before mastering the other basics of riding.

 

[vercify]

My buddy is a mechanic and he says that shifting without a clutch is literally doing nothing for you QUOTE]



Your buddy is simply wrong. Done properly, you can shift up and down without the clutch, with ZERO extra wear on anything, faster and smoother than with the clutch.


That said, I wouldn't suggest a new rider start off trying to clutchless shift before mastering the other basics of riding.

Do you have any credible sources to back this up? I would like to read up on it so I can make up my own mind, rather than rely on my buddy or random people online.

edit: just saw the above article, would love to read more.

 

[Kojiiro]

Do you have any credible sources to back this up? I would like to read up on it so I can make up my own mind, rather than rely on my buddy or random people online.

edit: just saw the above article, would love to read more.

There are tons of discussions on forums discussing this. Alot will say its actually less stressful on the transmission.

I only picked that one because maybe the fact that it was wrtiten by an MSF / Total Control rider that it would bring more credibility to the discussion.

Heres another article for you, from Total Control:

https://books.google.com/books?id=6...ge&q=clutchless upshift total control&f=false

 

[vercify]

There are tons of discussions on forums discussing this. Alot will say its actually less stressful on the transmission.

I only picked that one because maybe the fact that it was wrtiten by an MSF / Total Control rider that it would bring more credibility to the discussion.

Heres another article for you, from Total Control:

https://books.google.com/books?id=6...ge&q=clutchless upshift total control&f=false

Everything on forums is circumstantial and should be taken with a pile of salt, lol. I'd really like an objective, credible analysis of the benefits and detriments of clutches shifting. If it was 100% better in every way then why would bikes even have a clutch?

 

[Kojiiro]

Everything on forums is circumstantial and should be taken with a pile of salt, lol. I'd really like an objective, credible analysis of the benefits and detriments of clutches shifting. If it was 100% better in every way then why would bikes even have a clutch?

I dont think anyone is saying its better, only doable with no ill effects to the bike. You still need the clutch taking off from a stop.

Not sure if anyone has ever taken a clutch apart to do an analysis on it to see if there is more wear and tear or not, and not sure if you will find that.


If someones word isnt good enough, maybe sticking to conventional upshifting is the better route. Kind of like switching tire brands I guess.

 

[naripsta]

Definitely a noob question but once the bike is moving is it even necessary to use the clutch when upshifting?
I noticed I can upshift like normal clutch or no clutch.

I noticed it too.. I just like to clutch-in anyway, I mean.. in a way, it's there for a reason no?

 

[Phanuel]

The clutch is there to connect and disconnect power from the engine to the drivetrain/rear wheel.

Using it for upshifting can be optional at times and will save wear at other times (slower acceleration).

Using it for downshifting without a slipper clutch will save a lot of wear on the transmission components if your technique isn't perfect.

I purchased a heavily used bike recently with both a factory a quickshifter and downshifting autoblipper. At over 19k miles now, it's still running strong with no sign of clutch slipping and I'm pretty sure the clutch wasn't really used for anything other than starting and stopping the bike.

I'm not a pro racer or an engineer, but I tend to have a little bit of faith in a company putting these kinds of electronics on a bike from the factory and warrantying the thing for 3 years.

 

[Homyality]

Think of it this way. If done perfectly, the engine and transmission and spinning at the exact same speed and seamlessly switch together.

 

[YamahaR3]

Floating the gears doesn't hurt anything if done correctly. Most people don't do it correctly so I don't recommend it.

 

[CBRpilot]

On the R3... it's best to always use the clutch.

 

[Phanuel]

On the R3... it's best to always use the clutch.

Not true. Upshifting while accelerating by preloading the shifter and quickly closing and reopening the throttle is completely fine.

 

[NoobRider]

I certainly understand your buddy's point of view... I've always use the clutch and the reason I asked was because at times I was like hmm did the clutch even matter i.e did I pull it too quick, too slow, enough etc? so I tried it clutchless (just 1 time experiement) and it work the same w/o any jerking or any noticeable difference in ride at the very moment of shift.

Again I think it's all based on 'feel'. Obviously on slower speeds and certainly on 1st etc u need the clutch but I was thinking more like going 30, 40, 50 and the bike is already running smooth it may not be necessary to use the clutch especially on the upshift. The throttle is far more important but again I'm just a noob.

 

[Kojiiro]

If it was 100% better in every way then why would bikes even have a clutch?

I dont think you can clutchless from a dead stop.

Drag racing too. Feathering the clutch and what not.

 

[CBRpilot]

Not true. Upshifting while accelerating by preloading the shifter and quickly closing and reopening the throttle is completely fine.

I do this on my CBR1000RR sometimes. But I don't want to accidentally jam the tiny transmission parts on the R3, so I always use the clutch. The R3 engine/trans is so tiny. It reminds me of a Japanese mechanical watch! :laugh:

 

[Phanuel]

If you do it right, it just clicks into place with no resistance once you're off the throttle.

 

[Capn Kirk]

If you do it right, it just clicks into place with no resistance once you're off the throttle.

After reading this thread, I gave it a try.

Did my first gear change w/out clutch on this evenings outing. Was cruising through town doing around 35 mph in 4th. Sped on up to around 45 and let off the gas and pulled it up into 5th. Was smooth as butter, clicked right in. Have nothing to offer as if it is good/bad/ok for the bike. I plan on using the clutch 99% of the time.