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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have heard some awesome engines with stock and aftermarket exhaust systems. My favorites are the 4 cylinder and 3 cylinder bikes of most manufacturers. The scream of the R6 is amazing, as is the old school KZ Kawasaki's. The Italian V4's and in lines are pretty sweat as well. Not big on the Honda V4, but the Yamaha VMax has a personality that's hard to deny. The Honda CBX six was a favorite as well.

Further, I do not find the noise from Harley's with loud pipes good on any level. Actually hate them. The VRod with stock pipes is nice, as are some of their tourers, while Indian's with stock pipes are better than most all Harley's IMHO. For the most part, I don't find the engine noise of parallel twins all that interesting. I ruined an SX650 with a header that turned an otherwise great ride into a grating, blubbering ride. Triumph twins are wonderful with proper mufflers, and annoyingly awful with loud pipes. Most UJM twins sound awful with noise maker pipes.

I also do not believe in the myth of loud pipes saving lives, as there is no proof of that in any objective study done on this topic, and some that shows the opposite.

That leads to the R3. I have heard the top 5 slip-on systems and top 3 full exhausts. They all suck to me. They make the R3 sound like a small dirt bike, put-put-putting along, in the company if loud piped Rukus toys. On the road, the constant noise is annoying, and drowns out the wonderfully smooth revving noises of the engine itself. At cruising speed, motoring along at 7k or greater, the noise is not just ugly, it's annoying. I can do 3 hours with the stock muffler and be ready for more. After 30 minutes if the annoying after market getups, I want off. The issue with the R3, to me, is that it is two 160cc cylinders unevenly fired, which produces a similar noise to a higher revving 175cc dirt bike, which are what they are - and never considered as great sounding machines. I also find the blubbering and popping noise on deceleration distracting. I can't associate that with the Sport bike personality, as that's the noise I associate with single lung recreational rides we beat around on gravel roads and dry canal beds. The stock R3 does a fine job delivering power, while silencing the less desirable little bike noise. Since the vast majority of exhaust mods deliver no power gain to offer their annoying noise, I don't find any need for them...on my R3, nor any reason to reduce resale value.

I mean no offense to anyone who has a slip on here. I don't judge people based on what they do to their bikes. To each his own and all that. I offer this here as disclosure of an opinion that colors comments made elsewhere about exhaust choices for the R3.
 

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I call “Bull Sh*t”
As in the other thread you referenced, you’ve provided no proof contrary to the statement “Loud pipes save lives.”
There has been NO study that scientifically and quantifiably disputes that claim. One does say that two wheeled vehicles with aftermarket exhaust may be over represented in that category but, accidents being accidents, there is a myriad of contributing factors that could explain this.

Lets go real world scenario…
My son, or myself, are driving along the highway. Him on his (currently) stock R3, me on my Indian with aftermarket Tab Shorty’s and come upon a regular car driven by a distracted driver texting a Skip order. Who is more likely to grab him/her/they’s attention and be noticed from a distance thus avoiding a potentially leathal situation?
You’ve stated your distaste for aftermarket exhaust sound vs OEM yet theres a billion dollar industry out there, and myself, that would disagree.
 

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Lets go real world scenario…
My son, or myself, are driving along the highway. Him on his (currently) stock R3, me on my Indian with aftermarket Tab Shorty’s and come upon a regular car driven by a distracted driver texting a Skip order. Who is more likely to grab him/her/they’s attention and be noticed from a distance thus avoiding a potentially leathal situation?
Probably neither since they're likely to have the radio on and aren't paying attention anyway so any other noise is just in the background and unconsciously get's ignored. The best way to deal with a situation like that is to simply not to get in to a position where that's a problem. Never make the assumption that anyone in a closed vehicle can see or hear you.

It's smart riding that saves lives, I don't think that an exhaust has anything to do with it. Even when I'm on my bike and a car/bike with loud exhaust goes by I don't even hear them until they're right next to me or have already gone past.

I have heard some awesome engines with stock and aftermarket exhaust systems. My favorites are the 4 cylinder and 3 cylinder bikes of most manufacturers. The scream of the R6 is amazing, as is the old school KZ Kawasaki's. The Italian V4's and in lines are pretty sweat as well. Not big on the Honda V4, but the Yamaha VMax has a personality that's hard to deny. The Honda CBX six was a favorite as well.

Further, I do not find the noise from Harley's with loud pipes good on any level. Actually hate them. The VRod with stock pipes is nice, as are some of their tourers, while Indian's with stock pipes are better than most all Harley's IMHO. For the most part, I don't find the engine noise of parallel twins all that interesting. I ruined an SX650 with a header that turned an otherwise great ride into a grating, blubbering ride. Triumph twins are wonderful with proper mufflers, and annoyingly awful with loud pipes. Most UJM twins sound awful with noise maker pipes.

I also do not believe in the myth of loud pipes saving lives, as there is no proof of that in any objective study done on this topic, and some that shows the opposite.

That leads to the R3. I have heard the top 5 slip-on systems and top 3 full exhausts. They all suck to me. They make the R3 sound like a small dirt bike, put-put-putting along, in the company if loud piped Rukus toys. On the road, the constant noise is annoying, and drowns out the wonderfully smooth revving noises of the engine itself. At cruising speed, motoring along at 7k or greater, the noise is not just ugly, it's annoying. I can do 3 hours with the stock muffler and be ready for more. After 30 minutes if the annoying after market getups, I want off. The issue with the R3, to me, is that it is two 160cc cylinders unevenly fired, which produces a similar noise to a higher revving 175cc dirt bike, which are what they are - and never considered as great sounding machines. I also find the blubbering and popping noise on deceleration distracting. I can't associate that with the Sport bike personality, as that's the noise I associate with single lung recreational rides we beat around on gravel roads and dry canal beds. The stock R3 does a fine job delivering power, while silencing the less desirable little bike noise. Since the vast majority of exhaust mods deliver no power gain to offer their annoying noise, I don't find any need for them...on my R3, nor any reason to reduce resale value.

I mean no offense to anyone who has a slip on here. I don't judge people based on what they do to their bikes. To each his own and all that. I offer this here as disclosure of an opinion that colors comments made elsewhere about exhaust choices for the R3.
I'm of the same mind, the stock exhaust sounds the best, it's almost like Yamaha knows how to design an exhaust. As for other bikes or cars I don't mind if they're a bit loud as long as it's not excessive (ex. straight piped HD/Indian/ect. giving everyone nearby tinnitus). I find that an aftermarket air filter on the R3 can actually give a pleasant boost to the intake induction and overall sound and it's not obnoxious for cruising around, though I do notice that pedestrians turn to look more often so maybe it's louder than I think. :unsure:
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
There are several scientific objective studies and expert opinions showing that the loud pile saves lives idea is myth.

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But... That's beside the point of the OP. I personally don't believe the R3 produces a nice exhaust note through louder pipes or mufflers. Further, the engine is small, and not going to produce the level of noise necessary to be heard from inside a car with modern sound proofing, when approached from the angles where hearing a bike will have any impact on the rider's path. Finally, human vision is 80% of the senses used when driving, and is regulated by testing of drivers. Hearing is not regulated, the most variable between individuals, the most easily distracted, and very low in sensory focus that creates the longest response/reaction time. Finally, more and more drivers are sick of the noise from passing bikes and neighborhood noise from big bikes with open exhaust, that they are becoming hostile to motorcycles themselves, which means less care whether they are exposing bikers to harm. In the majority of incidents, motorcyclists are injured and drivers are not, so they risk little in their road rage. But... To each his own. I focus on being a defensive rider, being visible, and assuming that the dummies in cars will do what they do whether or not I am heard. Depending on noise as a passive defense tactic is dangerous.

Another myth for another time is the "eye contact" myth. Thus too has been proven wrong. Drivers can look in your direction, you can see their eyes, yet still act like you are not there. They do not "see you", as their brains are processing around expectation, thus erasing you from cognition. The entire "See Motorcycles" campaign is built around resolving this by putting motorcycles into the cognitive consciousness of motorists.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
My son, or myself, are driving along the highway. Him on his (currently) stock R3, me on my Indian with aftermarket Tab Shorty’s and come upon a regular car driven by a distracted driver texting a Skip order. Who is more likely to grab him/her/they’s attention and be noticed from a distance thus avoiding a potentially lethal situation?
Neither. The driver will not hear either bike at highway speeds or in busy traffic, until you have passed them. I have been run off the road, merged into, cut off, and blocked by drivers, while riding the most obnoxious bikes with drag pipes, open headers, aftermarket exhausts, and stock alike. On the other hand, I have experienced road rage from startling a driver passed with a blip of the gas in a 1200cc drag bike, which resulted in dangerous tail gating and a direct confrontation that cost me a beer to calm the enraged I found was actually an acquaintance and fellow rider. i have since grown up and learned to be smarter as a rider, regardless of the bike I am riding.

You’ve stated your distaste for aftermarket exhaust sound vs OEM yet there's a billion dollar industry out there, and myself, that would disagree.
Don't care who disagrees. More bikes run on stock exhausts than aftermarket, by a large margin, so the comparison is silly. BTW, not a billion dollar industry, maybe a few hundred million, when you remove race parts used only for track bikes. But, if it were all about billions being the reason to do anything (reference removed). I don't pre-qualify opinions based on whether it is in line with some commercial marketing interest, sorry.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
You lost all credibility with this statement
Fair enough. Edited the reference out, since that is not my thing, nor relevant to the topic. Changes nothing otherwise.

I realize and accept that I will never have credibility with some here, including yourself, for various reasons. That's life. For the most part, I don't aim to change anyone's hard set preconceived notions or beliefs. Nor do I believe that I have all the answers. Been on this spinning ball for more than 64 trips around the big yellow star, so know that's a futile waste of time. What I do believe in is sharing information on topics that many newcomers and vets alike can use to form their own approach and strategies, and avoid some of the misinformation that mislead folks. To do that, I read a lot, talk to experts when I can, and test stuff I see and hear. The R3 being an entry and re-entry platform means it is a fun place to share. My OP was to disclose my personal leanings and taste, so that anyone reading other posts on the muffler topic from me will know "yeah, he's the guy who doesn't like loud R3's", so they can move on. To me, this is more interesting that scoping pictures of you-know-what elsewhere on the interwebs.

'Nuf said on this one. Cheers.
 

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The difference between your opinion and tacos is… I asked for tacos!

Came in here, made my introduction post, searched forum for the info I’m after, posted a question, then got lectured by you on safety and misconceptions.

If you can look me in the eye and say there is no way no how no time in the history of two wheeled motor vehicles that the sound of a loud exhaust has saved some souls life, I’ll buy you that beer your out.
 

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Obnoxiously loud pipes cost rights ... they get dirt-bike riding areas closed off, they get racetracks closed, they get motorcycles banned from certain roads or at certain times, they attract undue police attention ...

But, back to the completely subjective discussion about what engine firing order configurations sound good and what don't.

The Yamaha R1 cross-plane inline 4 can sound good with the right exhaust system on it.

Parallel twins with 270-degree crankshafts can sound good. Examples: Yamaha MT-07 series and all its relatives, Aprilia RS660 and its relatives, KTM 790/890 series.

Parallel twins with 180-degree crankshafts (Kawasaki parallel twins, and the R3) usually sound rather awful. For some reason, I think my R3 (which is a race bike) sounds better than the average Kawasaki parallel twin despite the same firing pattern - BUT - having noticed that these engines seem to run better with a quiet muffler, I have a Hindle full exhaust system on it but with the longest muffler Hindle makes and in the "stealth" series (quieter - the outlet is smaller). Mine is pretty quiet as race bikes go.

BUT ... The worst sounding non-H-D bikes I have ever come across ... are BMW F800-series parallel twins ... and I've rented a few of them (they're great rental bikes even though I would never buy one). They sound awful stock, they sound awful with aftermarket exhausts ... but at least stock is quiet-awful as opposed to noisy-awful. These have a 360-degree (even-firing-order) crankshaft. I think the newer F850 and F900 parallel twins have a 270-degree crank, but I haven't come across one yet in my travels.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
The difference between your opinion and tacos is… I asked for tacos!
Came in here, made my introduction post, searched forum for the info I’m after, posted a question, then got lectured by you on safety and misconceptions.
None of my posts are directed at any individual. I see forums as open platforms, where ideas are exchanged based on whatever inspiration comes to them - sometimes inspired by a post from another member, as much as not. I have long since realized that changing most minds is a complete waste of time. However, I do find that providing information to those who are still pondering a topic can result in interesting and enlightening exchanges.

Nothing more than that going on here. This is why I created a post independent of yours on the topic of loud exhaust for your son's R3, disclosing my personal approach, individually.

So, in a way, by reading my OP, you did ask for my opinion on the topic - since nowhere in that post were you mentioned. So, I must now ask... do you want chicken or beef, hot or mild, and with or without cheese? ;)
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Obnoxiously loud pipes cost rights ... they get dirt-bike riding areas closed off, they get racetracks closed, they get motorcycles banned from certain roads or at certain times, they attract undue police attention ...

But, back to the completely subjective discussion about what engine firing order configurations sound good and what don't.

The Yamaha R1 cross-plane inline 4 can sound good with the right exhaust system on it.

Parallel twins with 270-degree crankshafts can sound good. Examples: Yamaha MT-07 series and all its relatives, Aprilia RS660 and its relatives, KTM 790/890 series.

Parallel twins with 180-degree crankshafts (Kawasaki parallel twins, and the R3) usually sound rather awful. For some reason, I think my R3 (which is a race bike) sounds better than the average Kawasaki parallel twin despite the same firing pattern - BUT - having noticed that these engines seem to run better with a quiet muffler, I have a Hindle full exhaust system on it but with the longest muffler Hindle makes and in the "stealth" series (quieter - the outlet is smaller). Mine is pretty quiet as race bikes go.

BUT ... The worst sounding non-H-D bikes I have ever come across ... are BMW F800-series parallel twins ... and I've rented a few of them (they're great rental bikes even though I would never buy one). They sound awful stock, they sound awful with aftermarket exhausts ... but at least stock is quiet-awful as opposed to noisy-awful. These have a 360-degree (even-firing-order) crankshaft. I think the newer F850 and F900 parallel twins have a 270-degree crank, but I haven't come across one yet in my travels.
I agree on all counts. I believe, but cannot confirm, that part of the issue of the 180 degree crank orientation is that it makes the engine sound like a smaller motor running at a higher RPM. In the case of the R3, it sounds, as noted, like a revved up single, rather than a proper twin. Single cylinder bikes sound like what they are, little one lungers working hard for their feed - but nothing audibly enticing.

I had a brief run with one of the F800 BMWs. Nice engine, but not great to listen to. Bike in general was a bore, so I sold it off within a season.

I recently ran across why the MotoGP bikes sound so much like twins, rather than V4's. They are using a Big Bang dynamic to enhance rear traction. Pairs of cylinders fire in close proximity, with gaps that give the tire time to rest between beatings, which makes them sound like big even fire twins or triples, rather than a proper 90 degree firing V4. But MotoGP isn't about noise, it's about grip and controlling power between corners. Would make an ugly sounding street bike.

For fun:

Still a big fan of inline fours for their noise. My Kawasaki drag inspired bike at 1200cc, 43mm Mikuni flat slides, open header, and nasty camshaft profile not only delivered the rip, it had a bark at around 8,500 RPM that would raise the hair on my neck! I couldn't get away with much on that monster. Got tickets on highways from cops who heard it on the on-ramp, so just pulled me over, knowing I was up to no good. They were right more times than not, and I eventually sold it to a guy in my neighborhood who made a proper 8 second drag bike of it.
 

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The Ducati Panigale V4 uses (as near as anyone can tell) the same firing pattern as the Ducati GP bike! Out of all the superbikes, the Panigale V4 is the closest cousin to their GP bike. Ducati have taken lessons-learned to heart, and they're making use of that in WorldSBK as well. (I think the Ducati is the fastest bike in WorldSBK. Of course, that doesn't also automatically mean the best rider, and the best mechanics, and the best team ...)

The Ducati V4 layout is a 90-degree V with crankpins 70 degrees apart. All four cylinders fire in just over one revolution and then there's almost one revolution of nothing firing. The irregular firing sequence is a descendent of "long bang" (all cylinders fire within a narrow window followed by a period of nothing) and that was a descent of the short-lived "big bang" (cylinders firing simultaneously ... that broke stuff).

I think they sound great. The only thing wrong with the Panigale V4 is that I haven't ridden one. LOL
 
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