[Raie]

Edit: MotoJitsu has a video on a ZX6R that basically has similar limitation which means the problem is, as I thought - me.

I was pretty confident on this bike especially after a month long road/camp trip over the entirety of NZ. Riding >1 year, >20 hours professional training on bike, >40,000km (~25,000mi), >250km on gravel with road tires, been in all conditions; thunderstorms, riding through clouds with visor icing over, hailstorms, intense fog, etc. - compared to most people it's not much, but also not a complete beginner but starting to feel like one again. I can soon sit my full license test and this is a problem I've now put in the way, whereas I could have effortlessly passed before.

I had vortex rearsets and clipons put on. I'm 6'5 and just don't fit the bike so went with a best effort service. I absolutely love the way it feels now - when at speed and cornering at speed in particular. No, I don't want an R6 or R1, I love this bike and want to learn the correct technique instead, and yes it will never fit correctly.

What I'm after here is the correct technique for doing a U-Turn with limited steering. Both from complete stop into 180 degree turn and from moving into 180 degree turn. Wouldn't mind tips on low speed cornering too; should I be getting used to leaning at low speed and where the limit lies between the angle and the momentum?

I think this is an issue with me and not the bike. The bike has simply been too easy to ride without it. Filing the steering stop and increasing the steering limit is an option but I would rather improve as a rider under this limitation before doing that instead.

With the bars moved forward the steering stop is so limiting to the point that I can't do a U-Turn adequately. I see two options: 1) Ride the friction zone, trail the rear hard, get to 90% proximity of the steering stop and do it slow and practice this enough that I can do it without accidentally hitting the steering stop 2) Lean the bike over, counter-balance to an absurd level, turn my head so far my neck hurts, and hope I don't send the bike into the ground.

Today I practiced doing #1 and there are some really tight turns that the bike I simply can't achieve in that manner and it really feels awful and unnatural. Before the steering stop this would have been natural and effortless and the strange thing is I can't even picture how it would usually feel/look when I did it beforehand. The idea of doing #2 is something I'm willing to try IF I'm told it's the correct technique and some tips on doing it safely.

I don't really know what I should be doing to counter this issue. I've added some clearance through my own adjustments and will get the right person to file back the steering stop to at least increase the limit. I wanted it closer to a track bike but I feel it has become too close; mainly it was to account for my size.

I watched someone doing an extremely tight course today and I'm sure he was leaning more than steering, which I should be doing too right? Pick up a little bit of speed, both feet up, and then lean hard into the UTurn while pressing the opposing peg with the ball of my foot using all my weight (which is also shifted over to that side). I did the same course and there were some turns that I just can't do without hitting the steering stop, and when you hit it, either your foot goes down or the bike does.

 

[Maxpressure520]

Dont ride scared my dood. Your bike and traffic can smell fear. Be confident, humble, and vigilant. Im not sure what the problem is. Due to its short wheelbase, even with the steer stop, the R3 still u-turns like a champ. I wouldnt go filing down the steer stop. Use your heighth to counter the bikes lean angle at slow speeds. Also, the rear brake helps upright the bike at low speeds. Thats what i do. Practice makes perfect.

 

[privilege15]

Ok. With stock handlebars you will be able to do the U-turn without leaning the bike the radius of which is based on Australian P plate test standards. The key is maintaining the full steering lock through the full turn. Requires a lot of practice to keep balance at first but doable. I did it.

With vortex clipons, it's also doable. I had Vortex 7 degree clipons. It was a nightmare to adjust them in such a way that I could go from full lock to full lock position without the brake reservoir and the levers touching the fairings. You do need to reposition the brake fluid reservoir, incline it and change the position of the brake fluid hose attachment (loosen it and rotate until it's out of the way) just be careful not put any strain on the hose in extreme clipons position.

 

[Raie]

Dont ride scared my dood.

It's only an issue on extremely tight turns (i.e UTurns). I researched and will be going out again to practice in a parking lot.

Ok. With stock handlebars you will be able to do the U-turn without leaning the bike the radius of which is based on Australian P plate test standards. The key is maintaining the full steering lock through the full turn. Requires a lot of practice to keep balance at first but doable. I did it.

With vortex clipons, it's also doable. I had Vortex 7 degree clipons. It was a nightmare to adjust them in such a way that I could go from full lock to full lock position without the brake reservoir and the levers touching the fairings. You do need to reposition the brake fluid reservoir, incline it and change the position of the brake fluid hose attachment (loosen it and rotate until it's out of the way) just be careful not put any strain on the hose in extreme clipons position.

Don't want to change it, just want to learn, this is normal for supersports.

I watched heaps of videos last night, especially MotoJitsu's. I also saw lots of Gymkhana videos and looked into the techniques they use - holy crap they're sure not road riding techniques though.

Basically the only thing I'm missing is more lean + more counterbalance.

 

[xorbe]

If you watch "TheMissendenFlyer" channel on YT, he always does u-turn tests. A lot of sporty type bikes can have a lackluster radius.

 

[Raie]

If you watch "TheMissendenFlyer" channel on YT, he always does u-turn tests. A lot of sporty type bikes have a lackluster u-turn radius.

Thanks will look it up! Sitting at a gas station refueling myself then my bike, then off to the parking lot.

 

[Maxpressure520]

It's only an issue on extremely tight turns (i.e UTurns). I researched and will be going out again to practice in a parking lot.



Don't want to change it, just want to learn, this is normal for supersports.

I watched heaps of videos last night, especially MotoJitsu's. I also saw lots of Gymkhana videos and looked into the techniques they use - holy crap they're sure not road riding techniques though.

Basically the only thing I'm missing is more lean + more counterbalance.

Yes my dood, more counter balance. I learned u turns the hard way by putting my foot down and nearly dumping the bike.

 

[Raie]

Yes my dood, more counter balance. I learned u turns the hard way by putting my foot down and nearly dumping the bike.

With just a bit of counterbalance while pushing the bike slightly away I now clear the requirement for the scale of the turn.

This is rather fatiguing. So I'm practicing emergency braking and swerving and other stuff to switch it up. That's not new, but mixing in familiarity is helpful for the main purpose.

Honestly I'm still sloppy but know I won't be a hazard to myself or anyone else. Continued practice won't have a special focus, maybe more speed/lean/tightness will just come if I keep practicing but I know better than to force the result I want by now.

I'm also practicing the "oh **** that's my 90 degree turn and I'm too fast!" manouver because it's fun and there's no risk here and it's just a normal riding skill to be able to rapidly change direction; not part of my on road plan.

I have professional training lined up followed by the last formal test. I haven't booked it but it's lined up in my budget and after more practice.

I love learning the supersport style, there is so much skill involved. I'm in my element when I'm not. You know? I learned and the theory behind drifting and wheelies with the intention of never attempting them because I love the theory itself. So practicing what I'd need to know for an R6 or R1 or ZX6R (list goes on, and oh of course, turbo busa) in the sheer safety of an R3 is actually wonderful.

In fact I recommend buying and installing a steering stop on a stock R3 before going to a race class supersport (err, well, R3 is too but with mods) just to enforce the main restriction and what you need to learn first if you're new to it like I am. It's extremely simple install and uninstall.

Thanks so much everyone. Going to keep practicing for a few weeks minimum.

 

[GoFaster]

You should only ever hit steering stops in very tight parking-lot-manoeuvering-type situations ... and I hit them all the time in those situations.

This should only ever be happening in first gear ... if you are going fast enough for second gear, you are going fast enough to never hit the steering stop.

In those situations ... I take my inside foot off the peg prepared to put it down, should that become necessary.

The other thing that will make the bike stand up again ... is speeding up. Granted, in a parking-lot situation, that may not be an option ... hence the foot off the peg prepared to put it down.

 

[Raie]

You should only ever hit steering stops in very tight parking-lot-manoeuvering-type situations ... and I hit them all the time in those situations.

This should only ever be happening in first gear ... if you are going fast enough for second gear, you are going fast enough to never hit the steering stop.

In those situations ... I take my inside foot off the peg prepared to put it down, should that become necessary.

The other thing that will make the bike stand up again ... is speeding up. Granted, in a parking-lot situation, that may not be an option ... hence the foot off the peg prepared to put it down.

100%.

After I had all the mods done I took the bike for a blast along the highway and was like hoooooly **** I can send it compared to the stock bike; felt like a whole new machine and it was bliss. Fixed all the body positioning issues and steering stop was never even a consideration. Best bike on the planet (I'm one of the least qualified to say this, but I love how the R3 handles at speed now).

I could barely tuck on stock R3, especially with my height. Now I'm full tuck any time I'm 3rd or above. And the Puig racing windscreen just removes all air resistance compared to stock. What a joy.

What really caught me off-guard is I'd take a 65-75KPH recommended corner at 110KPH on speedo (error threshold, not intending to speed) but between the lean raising RPMs and the full tuck even with constant throttle the KPH shoots up and I kept having to brake after a corner to reduce speed. I don't want to get a ticket lol, having money issues because I keep upgrading the bike (joking, umm sort of).

Sorry mods, I kept having more thoughts to edit in and now you have to approve it, I think I triggered some new member detection Apologies for your added work.

 

[privilege15]

R3 doesn't need a steering stop. Also R3 in stock is not a super sport, it's a sport touring bike. If you want to make a supersport out of it you need lower aftermarket clipons (like Vortex, which you already have), then you need to raise the seat and raise the rearsets. This will give you the exact supersport riding position. If you also replace the rear shock and fork internals, it will lift the motorcycle even more and combined with raised rearsets will give you a lot of clearance while leaning. Only after these mods an R3 can be called a supersport IMHO.

 

[Raie]

R3 doesn't need a steering stop. Also R3 in stock is not a super sport, it's a sport touring bike. If you want to make a supersport out of it you need lower aftermarket clipons (like Vortex, which you already have), then you need to raise the seat and raise the rearsets. This will give you the exact supersport riding position. If you also replace the rear shock and fork internals, it will lift the motorcycle even more and combined with raised rearsets will give you a lot of clearance while leaning. Only after these mods an R3 can be called a supersport IMHO.

It needs a steering stop given where my clipons are (which has a lot to do with my physical size).

The rearsets are raised and back. I'm waiting on the auto upholsterer to be available (exactly a week) to raise the seat. Rear shock replacement is on my wait list since its a bit pricy and I don't have the money yet but I definitely need it. Fork internals are also on my list. Will be going YSS for both as Ohlins have priced themselves out of the market for many of us.

 

[xorbe]

(Thread bump for post #10 that got stuck in the moderation queue.)

 

[GoFaster]

All motorcycles have steering stops, it's only a question of how much movement they allow ...

I hit the stock steering stops with my ZX10R all the time when turning in parking lots. Better have a foot off the peg ready to catch it.

My R3 has an aftermarket (Norton) steering stop to reduce the amount of steering travel ... to avoid the below-the-triple-clamp handlebars from hitting other parts of the bike.

It's very, very bad to have actuation of the front brake lever due to hitting the fairing, as a steering stop.

 

[Raie]

All motorcycles have steering stops, it's only a question of how much movement they allow ...

I hit the stock steering stops with my ZX10R all the time when turning in parking lots. Better have a foot off the peg ready to catch it.

My R3 has an aftermarket (Norton) steering stop to reduce the amount of steering travel ... to avoid the below-the-triple-clamp handlebars from hitting other parts of the bike.

It's very, very bad to have actuation of the front brake lever due to hitting the fairing, as a steering stop.

Yes my R3 has aftermarket for this reason too I always have both feet up but you can bet my foot is ready to go down before the bike does My bars are farther forward to account for height.

 

[SlimJim]

U turning in 24 ft two lane road is one of the hardest things and we are handicapped with a sport bike.
In real life situation, I would not do it if it was 24ft of less. I would drive farther and find a turn around spot.

 

[Raie]

U turning in 24 ft two lane road is one of the hardest things and we are handicapped with a sport bike.
In real life situation, I would not do it if it was 24ft of less. I would drive farther and find a turn around spot.

In the NZ full license test they will tell you on a 100kph rural road, "pull over and turn around when safe to do so." Their expectation is that you check your mirror (M), if safe, indicate (I), head check aka look (L), then move over (O) i.e [MILO]. If you go further down the road and they don't recognize the reason, this will be considered failure to obey an instruction due to lack of rider skill resulting in immediate failure. You can turn left when told to turn right because you misheard no issue, but you can never do anything that is based on lack of ability.

Many roads here on the South Island, in my area, are very tight and have no shoulder whatsoever, and can often have a large dip/gutter type thing covered with grass so zero room to reposition off the road to take some of the angle out of it. I will likely just wait until traffic has slowed enough that I can reposition into the road and UTurn from there, and if I receive a fault I'll just say "check my bars" I think they will consider it fair enough and safest given the bike's limitation. The rural roads here usually don't have much traffic, so it should be OK.

Due to the requirements to become an instructor and assess me, I can't imagine between the initial inspection (seeing vortex clipons forward on the bike), the way I take 90 degree turns with a decent amount of lean instead of just steering, that they wouldn't realize.

If the bike is moving and my foot goes down, I will receive a fault. So long as I haven't made a few other mistakes it wont matter. If I fall off or drop the bike (which I wont) it is immediate fail. If they fault me for how I handle the UTurn when I point out the steering stop they will likely remove the fault; it simply isn't expected in NZ because of the restrictions placed on what you can/can't ride without a full license and most riders don't do what I did at this early point in their riding life.

 

[Dreadwil]

@Raie - If you haven't already, I'd strongly recommend you do some Ride Forever courses. They will go over any issues and questions you have. In your case they would demonstrate u turns and critique you as you go. The course cost ranges from $50 to free.

They taught me sharp turning techniques that I probably would never have figured out by myself which built up my turning confidence.

 

[Paulie.online]

When I did a Ride Forever course, the instructor said that you don't actually have to do a U-turns. He said that the instruction that he gives is for the rider to turn around when safe to do so. He said that he wouldn't specifically fail someone for, for example, using a driveway to turn around in, as long as they did so safely.

It seems we're starting to get quite a few NZ-based riders on here now, which is also great to see.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

 

[Dreadwil]

Yeah, I never had to do a u turn for any of my tests. Personally I think it should be a compulsory part of the full license test as it can catch some riders out (kind of like parallel parking in the car license test 😂)